Posts by THE GLADIATOR

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

THE GLADIATOR

AK - Jeff – I realize that you are not really angry with God but frustrated that people can love the concept of an all powerful being that does nothing to alleviate suffering and I can sympathise with that.

If such a being did exist and did act, where would he, she, it draw the line? Stopping all serious car crashes. No baby or mother ever dying during child birth. No disease, illness or even pain. No war or starvation. Perhaps he would stop people smoking, drinking or becoming obese and dying as a result. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that earth will one day be such a place but bought at the cost of God destroying most of humanity to make way for a new world, then killing anyone who gets bored and breaks a rule. Others believe that the reward for being a loving person in this life will result in a heavenly reward.

For me it’s back to the drawing board without any preconceived notions based on the God of the bible. Other spiritual disciplines have a very different concept of why being a living creature on earth involves suffering. I have yet to find a philosophy that is convincing. But from the safety of my warm comfortable well stocked home I shall enjoy many more hours exploring the dilemma.

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

THE GLADIATOR

Thank you Tammy for being as understanding as always. You love because it is in your nature to love and loving the way you do is a Christian virtue.

This is a treacherous and dangerous world and we have fragile hearts, so to me there is such a thing as loving too much.

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

THE GLADIATOR

AK - Jeff you seem to be very angry with a god that you do not believe exists. The freedom of not believing in the existence of the god of the bible, is that you can be free. Free from anger towards the impotent god of the bible. If such a being existed he would never have allowed any person to suffer.

The reality is that since the beginning of time many humans have starved to death and died from terrible wounds inflicted by accident, wild beasts and war. It has always been thus and continues to be so. If all humans had live out their natural life span, the earth would have many times its present population. This would have been unsustainable and led to even greater suffering and death.

Shocking as it is, the death of others enables us lucky people to live such comfortable lives on a planet that still just manages to sustain the t he mass invasion by humans . I can’t change the world and am selfish enough to admit that I hope it doesn’t change until after I have ceased to be. My apologies to the decent, good hearted people who believe in a god of love and may be shocked by my honesty.

Reality is what IS... not what we wish it to be...

17

Would Christianity have survived if......

by wobble in

...........the roman empire had not adopted it ?

they were far from being in the majority at the time,although growth had taken place over a large area, but within that area they were still a minority religion, often an underground one.. so hypothetically, would it just have withered and died, have torn itself to shreds with all the schisms and sects ?.

i think that without the power of rome it would have done just that, perhaps the coptic church may have survived until the 21st century and perhaps the eastern churches, but the western ?

THE GLADIATOR

Before Rome adopted Christianity it had more than three hundred gods and goddesses. Now it has one god split into three.

Gladiators were not consulted about the change over. Oh, the sorry trade!

17

What is it with OBVES that you give him/her the time of day ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

i am at a loss as to understanding why some people give so much time and energy to responding to people like obves on this board ,,,,,,,,and of course he`s not the only one , ,,,,,,,,,why do we give these guys the platform to espouse their dribble ?

on this site ?

it is an exjw site is it not,?

THE GLADIATOR

If we were to ignore all posters that make comments based upon their own reasoning or unfounded guesswork and assumption, there would be very few posters worth conversing with. The most fun is often had debating with those that have views opposed to our own.

41

If You Were God How Would You Prove You Existed

by Pig in

i ask this because obviously everyone has different criteria, hence why we have muslims who think quran is the more than enough proof, christians who think the bible is perfect proof and atheists who believe that nothing yet has been proof enough of gods existence.. living with humans we all must have a good idea of human nature (god should certainly know) so what would you provide as proof if you were god to convince the masses of your existence?.

if you were a christian would your proof surpass that contained in the bible, would you provide less proof?.

if you are atheist would you provide a mathematical equation or a series of supernatural events that fulfill prophecies every 100 years?.

THE GLADIATOR

If I were God I would pay off all world and personal debt. Eliminate starvation, war, disease and all suffering. Every one would get 100 years instantly added to their life span and I would make planet earth twice as big to cope with this change. All alcoholic drinks would be tax-free or even completely free.

I would restore the coliseum in Rome to its former glory so I could challenge politicians and bankers to purge themselves in combat in the arena. I would have my trusty gladius for defence but they would have only their big mouths to defend themselves with.

If these changes were not enough to prove I existed I would be pretty pissed off and go back to heaven to sulk und build up a rage while I let the Christians on this forum continue trying to do my job for me.

134

Christians Please Explain

by AK - Jeff in

since leaving all organized religion, all superstition, all acceptance of deity, i have a terrible time truly understanding 'religious' thought.. i really do.. how is it possible for thinking people to just accept, without proof, all they accept?

this morning i overheard a conversation between two christians in a coffee shop.

they say to me 'dad, what's wrong with just being a nice, good person?

THE GLADIATOR

A large number of the population’s older people are Christians because they were brought up by Christian parents. Their view of right and wrong has come from the bible which they were taught at school and in church. They are decent people who have a common set of principles to live by that they share with their community.

They have never searched for truth or questioned the bible account of things. They are content to stay in line and enjoy the security that comes from believing that everything is sorted and explained. They are not personally responsible for the world’s evils or the evils of religion throughout the centuries. Without religion the world would be much the same as it is. Wars are fought by greedy men in power in ‘the name of religion.’ Without religion there would be other regimes that may be less desirable who would find another excuse to fight for power and exploit and control the population.

The new version of Christianity embraced by younger people is said to be based on the original teachings of Jesus. It is based on a perceived direct spiritual connection with Jesus and, teaches love and belief in a benign god. As I understand it, the bible and all its offending scriptures depicting a vengeful and angry god have been assigned to the status of a novel. Only the parts that teach love and forgiveness are accepted as inspired.

Thought not a follower of Christ myself, I can think of philosophies or beliefs that are a lot worse to adopt and live by. Society will work itself out by consensus but whether a world without the influence of Christianity would truly be a better world is debatable. Is the behaviour of people in a secular society really improved by the loss of Christianity? As the influence of Christianity on society diminishes, the void needs to be filled to maintain a balance. As society evolves we are able to watch and decide but it could be a mistake to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

16

Why is there something rather than nothing?

by mankkeli in

i suppose both theists and atheists can answer this question, although if theists do, maybe they could explain why it is they believe god made creation and they are free to quote scripture if they choose.

for my own answer i believe he made it because he loved it and therefore made it exist, because it was therefore good (genesis 1:31 and god saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.

i'm especially interested though in the answer from the perspective without faith.

THE GLADIATOR

Needing a reason is a peculiarly human trait. What is, simply is. No justification or purpose is required. There can never be a purpose or an ultimate goal for the universe. It unfolds as it unfolds and may well cease to exist trillions of years from now(measured in earth time) There may have been previous universes and others yet to come.

The universe itself has no concept of time or reaching a conclusion. It exists because it is. The past has gone and the future will be the present the moment it exists. The only reality is the present.

I know this is deep for a gladiator - but I have had 2000 years to think it through!

14

Why would God be racist?

by mankkeli in

in the old testament, can you think of any conceivable reason that an all knowing all powerful god might logically select one small desert tribe in the desert to be his "chosen" people, and leave all the other races of the world out?

isn't that a bit racist?

i mean, he did not choose chinese people, or african people, he specifically chose the jews, and at least as far as i've seen in the narrative, he pretty much lets them treat everyone else however they like.. .

THE GLADIATOR

Humans are a race.

So if the Hebrew desert god chose sacrifice animals and bless humans he must be a racist.

233

Does the Issue of Universal Sovereignty make sense to you as an explanation for evil?

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

it used to for me, and now it doesn't.. i'm not sure how i was able to accept that argument now that i don't, but perhaps it was connected with my increasing compassion for people and their personal suffering as i've grown older.. now it seems like a sick excuse.

more like a bar-bet with satan and all of creation suffers.. i read paul's words and he has no rejoiner except to say in effect "sucks to be a vessel of wrath...glad i'm not one, but who are you to complain anyway, huh?

who's bigger, smarter and more powerful than you, you, you complaining vessel of wrath, you.

THE GLADIATOR

N.drew Why stop at mankind? Many accept that the earth and every living thing that it supports is just one complete organism which is also part of the universe. God is the name we give to all that 'is' in its entirety.

Because as humans we feel separated from each other, we have created the concept of a separate god in our own image. Perhaps we are not as separated from each other as we think and our divisions are artificial. There will never be true unity until the whole world realizes the truth is that we are all one. We are responsible for our destiny and our failings. The blessing and the malediction are results of our collective actions.